Dead to the World
May 14, 1997, 8 - 10pm
KPFA 94.1 FM, Berkeley CA
Host: David Gans
Special Guests: Bob Weir and Rob
Wasserman
[Music: Opening Grateful Dead montage -- 1:30]
[Music: Ratdog, "Touch of Grey," 4/7/97, New Orleans -- 7:00]
David Gans: I
think there were a lot of people out there in the world that were
surprised and delighted to hear Ratdog playing a Jerry song. That's
"Touch of Grey," and that was Ratdog, recorded April 7, 1997 in New
Orleans. And guess what -- I've got Bob Weir and Rob Wasserman here
in the studio with me. Good evening, boys.
Bob Weir:
Hiya.
Rob Wasserman:
Hey.
Gans: How are
you doing?
Weir: Just
fine.
Gans: You
recovered from this tour yet?
Weir: From the
tour, yeah.
Gans: And
gettin' ready for --
Wasserman: The
next one.
Weir:
[laugh]
Gans: -- the big
one.
Weir: Right.
Gans: Yeah.
Well, there've been a lot of changes. This last tour reflects a new
lineup, a larger group.
Weir: Larger
ensemble, all that kind of stuff.
Gans: So, who
you got in the band these days and how'd they get there?
Weir: Well,
there's me and Rob. We've always been there. I'm not entirely sure
how we got here --
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Weir: Actually,
it's a long story, but we're not going to get into that, that's
actually spelled out in black and white on the upcoming record...
Wasserman: And
how did the rest get here?
Weir: How did
the rest get here -- after we'd played together for five years or so,
as a duo, we decided, hey, how about a drummer? And that worked out
after a couple of gigs, is all.
Gans: Where'd
you find him? That's Jay Lane, right?
Weir: Yeah, Jay
Lane. We sort of snuck him from Primus, actually. He was playing with
Primus, and then, I don't know what happened, but anyway, he did a
session with us. And I guess things weren't working out, or maybe
they were, I don't know, but anyway, we snaked him from Primus. And
did a couple of gigs with him. We were going to do a tour, but that
didn't happen. But then by the time we got around to doing a tour
again, my old pal Matthew Kelly was back in town. so we thought we'd
kick it around with him a little bit, and that worked out.
Gans: And he
plays harmonica and a little bit of guitar here and there.
Weir: Yeah.
Gans: Good
harmonica player, too. He doesn't resort to the blues-honkin' cliches
that you usually hear.
Weir: No, he
spent a couple of years on the road with T-Bone Walker, on the
chitlin' circuit back in the early '70s. He was sort of the harmonica
player of choice for the chitlin' circuit blues bands. So -- and he
went for a couple years, basically, without seeing a white face.
Gans: Wow.
Weir: And
everybody loved him. And then I played with him *after* that in
Kingfish. And he's an old school pal of mine; we played ball together
back in 7th, 8th grade, 9th grade. back in those days. And then after
a while we decided, well, it'd be nice to have a keyboard player. And
we brought Vince on. But that didn't work out, for one reason or
another. And so, we still thought we might like to have a keyboard
player, so we brought on Johnny Johnson.
Gans: Now,
where'd you hook up with Johnny Johnson? Give us a little bit of the
background; he's got some pretty amazing history, too.
Weir: He's got
some credentials, yeah. He's no longer with us, not on this tour. In
the fall, I think he'll be back, but a six-month tour on a bus I
don't think is something that, uh -- the guy's 73. And, you know, his
back's givin' him problems, stuff like that. And we just didn't, we
couldn't feature doing that to him.
Gans: He's spent
an awful lot of time on the road over the years already.
Weir: Yeah.
Wasserman: Yup,
Chuck Berry --
Weir: Yeah, he
was Chuck Berry's keyboard player way back when. Before that he was
just a, you know, a consummate blues piano player. But then he teamed
up with Chuck Berry and sort of defined rock 'n' roll piano. He and
Jerry Lee Lewis and Little Richard.
Gans: So, it's
Johnny Johnson on all those great records: "School's Out," and --
Weir: Oh,
yeah.
Gans: -- "Johnny
B. Goode," of course.
Wasserman: I
think that was about him, right.
Weir: Actually,
"Johnny B. Goode" was written, I think, by Chuck Berry -- according
to Chuck Berry, if you can believe what he says, was written pretty
much for Johnny Johnson.
Gans: Really?
Interesting.
Wasserman: So
that says something about the way Johnny was when he was younger.
Gans: [laugh]
Yeah.
Weir: And he was
also an old pal of Willie Dixon's.
Wasserman: Who
we worked with.
Weir: Who we
worked with, for a little bit, back before his demise.
Gans: And of
course you wrote that lovely song "Eternity" with Willie Dixon.
Weir: Yeah.
Gans: Cool.
Okay, so you got drums, piano, Matthew on the harmonica, you two guys
-- *then* what happened?
Weir: Okay, then
we added Dave Ellis on sax. Dave had played with Jay in the Charlie
Hunter Trio, and when we went to hear Jay for the first time live --
he'd played a session with Rob and I on another project a while back
-- but anyway, so we went to hear him live, just to see what he was
like live before we invited him to join the band. And we were
mightily impressed, but not only by him, but by the sax player in
that trio. And Charlie Hunter, too, but Charlie Hunter plays this
weird nine-string guitar or whatever it is, eight strings.
Wasserman:
Right.
Weir: He plays
bass and guitar at the same time --
Wasserman: And
we didn't need another guitar player *or* bass player, so...
Weir: [laugh]
We're trying to add things one at a time.
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Weir: Charlie
Hunter went on in a different direction, and Dave went on with his
own band, but he sat in with us a time or two, and that felt good, so
we brought him on board; took him out on tour last fall.
And then we added Mookie Siegel, who was an old friend of Matthew's,
to play the more modern rock 'n' roll stuff, 'cos he's sort of
familiar with the Grateful Dead stuff, and that whole idiom, which
Johnny Johnson is -- Johnny Johnson's forte is more the old style
rock 'n' roll. Blues-oriented rock 'n' roll. And we'd been playin'
that for a year or two, and it was time to sort of move out of that
mold and so we brought on Mookie Siegel and we had *two* keyboard
players. And I guess it's seven guys in all. [NOTE: Mookie Siegel has
since been replaced by Jeff Chimenti.]
Wasserman: Yeah,
seven.
Weir: Does that
amount to seven? And now we're back down to six 'cause Johnny's going
to sit out the summer tour, 'cos we're not going to do a whole lotta
blues on the summer tour, 'cos we don't get that long to play. If we
had two or three hours to play, it'd be different, but we have at
most an hour and a half.
Gans: Well, I
must say, it's sort of pleasant and gratifying to hear you bringing
some of your favorite Grateful Dead material back into the Ratdog
repertoire, 'causeI've been missing hearing that stuff. I was
thrilled when I heard you guys were doing "Cassidy." And then
surprised and delighted when you started doing a couple of Garcia
songs along the way.
Weir: Well,
there are a number of those tunes that I'm not altogether prepared to
live the rest of my life without playin'. There'll be a few more of
'em; in fact, there'll be a bunch more of 'em. Also, there'll be a
bunch of new material as well.
Gans: Now, among
the tapes I was sifting through to find some stuff to play tonight, I
noticed a song I'd never heard of before -- somethin' about "howlin'
for my darlin' " -- where's that song from?
Weir: Um, I
think it's a Willie Dixon tune, yet again. But as performed by
Howlin' Wolf.
Gans: I brought
in some things that I thought would be interesting to play, and asked
Bob to bring in a few things, too. Of course, he brought Rob in,
among other things --
Weir: [laugh] I
didn't have time to look through my record collection, so I grabbed
him.
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Gans: So you
brought Wasserman; that's cool. Uh, but along the way here, I
discovered that you have never heard the Blind Willie Johnson version
of "If I Had My Way" --
Weir: Right.
Gans: So I'm
going to play that right now, for your edification and the people out
in the audience. This, I guess, is probably where Rev. Gary Davis
picked it up. So let's listen to that while I find "Eternity" on the
DAT.
Weir: Right.
[Music: Blind Willie Johnson, "If I Had My Way," 12/3/27 -- 3:05]
Weir: [laugh]
All right, I'm scared.
Gans:
[laugh]
Weir: [little
boy voice] " I don't like this game any more, Mommy!"
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Weir: [little
boy voice] " I'm scared."
Gans: [chuckle]
I'm looking to see if I can find a recording date on that --
Weir: Well, that
had to have been in nineteen twenty... seven.
Gans: Hey, good
guess! December 3, 1927.
Weir: Yeah --
Jesus, I'd never -- I guess that's where Gary Davis picked it up,
probably five or ten years later. And then he had this guitar style
of his that he'd adapted basically from stride piano. And he -- I
always thought he'd written that song. I studied with Rev. Gary Davis
many years ago, and he never let on that he *didn't* write the
tune.
Wasserman: Well,
he...
Weir: I'm sure
at that point, he didn't remember *where* it came from.
Gans: Well, he
certainly made something interesting out of it.
Weir: Oh yeah,
he made it happen, too. He made it pop.
Gans: I remember
-- I mean, I first heard it from the Grateful Dead, and then when I
heard his version, I was impressed with how well you had translated
the percussiveness of his version.
Weir: Right.
Gans: In a way,
it's weird it took six of you guys to do what he did all by
himself.
Weir:
[laugh]
Gans: On the
other hand, you did a really good job of puttin' across his rhythm,
which is pretty impressive.
Gans: So, one
thing we want to do this evening is take some phone calls from you
listeners. The phone number here is ****, if you've got a question or
a comment --
Weir:
[laugh]
Gans: I've got
both doors locked now, so --
Wasserman: Or an
answer, maybe.
Gans: Or an
answer, yes, okay. Well, hey, we got a caller on the line right now
--
Weir:
[laugh]
Gans: -- let's
just go ahead and see what we've got here. Hello, you're on the air.
Are you there? [no one there]
Weir: Chickened
out. Ah, well.
Wasserman: Crank
call.
Gans: All right,
we'll get another one. Hello, you're on the air.
Caller: Hello,
hi, my name is Patrick. I wanted to ask Bob Weir --
Weir: You
bet.
Caller: -- if
they could play more general admission [shows] on the West Coast, so
that people can wait in line and get close, instead of worrying about
the lottery of reserved tickets.
Weir: Right. Ah,
I like playin' general admission, and I tell you what: point well
made. Thanks. I haven't been payin' enough attention to that,
really.
Caller: It's
like the Henry J. [Kaiser Convention Center] is a great place. I saw
you at the Mardi Gras [1996].
Weir: Right.
Shoulda seen the sound check.
All: [laugh]
Weir: It was a
whole different deal.
Gans: That's
what everybody says.
Weir: At the
sound check, everybody knew what they were doing.
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Gans: And then
along came Taj [Mahal].
Weir: [laugh]
And David [Murray] and everybody who was supposed to be at the sound
check but wasn't.
Gans: Well,
thanks for registering your opinion --
Weir: You
bet.
Gans: -- and I
can tell that Bob's going to get right on it.
Weir: We got our
best guys on it.
Caller: Thanks,
you.
Weir: You
bet.
Caller: All
right --
Gans: Oh, sorry
about that. Hello, you're on the air with Bob and Rob. [silence]
Okay, I guess you're not on the air with Bob and Rob. How about you,
you want to be on the air with Bob and Rob? [click] Oh, they're
droppin' like flies.
Weir: I tell you
what, you're probably not workin' that thing right.
Gans:
[laugh]
Wasserman:
[laugh] Oh, no.
Weir: This is
probably pilot error here.
Wasserman: Is
this an 800 number or what?
Weir: 900
number.
Gans: [laugh] "I
swear to God, I been doing this for yeeahs." Well, let's try one more
time, and if that doesn't work, then we'll go to the prerecorded
music.
Weir: [laugh]
Fall back and punt.
Gans: Try not to
make me look bad. Are you there?
Caller:
Hello?
All: All
right!
Gans:
[laugh]
Caller: Yes,
this question is for Bob.
Weir: You
bet.
Caller: I was
wondering if there are any outtakes that are around from your first
album, from the "Ace" album?
Gans: Ooh, good
question.
Weir: There is
one.
Caller: There
is?
Gans: A song you
left off?
Weir: Or was it,
was "Walk in" -- no actually, "Walk in the Sunshine" was on the
record, but that was not really the song. There was a lyric that
[John Perry] Barlow had written that I actually chickened out from
singing. It was called "The Dwarf," and it was ugly. Um...
Gans: Now, wait
a minute. Barlow told me that he wrote that lyric as a way of getting
you to accept "Walk in the Sunshine."
Weir: Right.
Basically, yeah.
Gans:
[chuckle]
Caller: That's
not the best song on the whole album.
Weir: No, it's
not.
Caller:
[chuckle]
Weir: But it
would have been a lot better, I think, if I'd done "The Dwarf."
Gans:
[chuckle]
Caller: So you
never played that song live.
Weir. No. Maybe,
maybe if I can get the lyrics to that one...
Gans: I think I
have -- I think Barlow gave me the lyrics --
Weir: A copy of
the lyrics to "The Dwarf"?
Gans: -- to "The
Dwarf. " I have it in my file. I'll fax it to you, Bob.
Weir: I don't
know --
Gans: Look for
it on this tour, folks.
Weir: -- we'll
see, it's, uh --
Gans: We'll have
banners out on the Furthur tour.
Caller:
[laugh]
Weir: Among
other things, it's kinda politically incorrect.
Caller: Oh, I
wouldn't worry about that.
Weir:
[laugh]
Gans: Really.
[laugh]
Caller: So, what
you're saying is, that's the only outtake from that album that's
floating around.
Weir:
Aaah...
Gans: Was there
another take of "Playing in the Band"? It was such a perfect version
--
Weir: There're
probably several takes of several of the tunes.
Caller:
Uh-huh.
Gans: 'Cause
that wound up being such a perfect studio jam, you know.
Weir: Right. We
didn't lose the "ten," all the way through. It stayed in ten all the
way through, which was sort of a triumph for us, at that point.
Caller: Yeah,
that's a great album. One of my favorites.
Weir:
Thanks.
Gans: And, not
coincidentally, perhaps, I couldn't find my copy of it as I left the
house this evening, so I can't even put that on to illustrate --
Weir: Great!
Gans: -- but
thank you for calling.
Caller: Okay,
thanks a lot.
Weir: You
bet.
Caller: Bye
now.
Gans: Okay, let
me see if I can get this other phone to work. Hello, are you
there?
Caller: Yeah,
hey.
Gans: All right.
See, I *knew* I knew how to work this thing.
Caller: Hey,
Bobby!
Weir: You
bet.
Caller: Are you
guys plannin' on lowering the stage for us rail rats, so we can get
up and see you guys this summer?
Weir: Um, I
think the stages come the way they are.
Caller: Oh,
yeah?
Weir: I think
we'd have to, you know -- it'd probably take a little dynamite or
somethin'.
Caller: Yeah, I
was a little disappointed on how high it was last summer.
Weir: Well, you
know, maybe we can bring in a buncha truckload of sand or somethin'
and put 'em in the front rows of the audience.
Gans:
Trampolines.
Wasserman:
Termites.
Weir: Right,
beach balls and umbrellas.
Caller: And
again, you guys plannin' on hooking up with Branford [Marsalis] ever
again?
Weir: Ah, if it
happens. He's out and about, and he's not tied down with that TV gig
anymore. So, you know, most likely that'll happen at some point.
Caller: Right
on, right on.
Gans: Of course,
they got a full-time sax player of their own right now, you know.
Caller: Oh,
that's right.
Weir: And he's,
you know, he's as great as --
Caller: Well, I
see you go and play with David Murray --
Weir: Yeah. I do
that, too.
Caller: --
so...
Weir: I mean,
there're a lot of good sax players out there, and they're like
snowflakes: they're all different.
Caller: Oh,
yeah.
Weir: We got one
of our own who lives here, and that makes a big difference --
Wasserman: He's
good, too.
Weir: -- 'cos we
can work with him all the time. And I think you're going to be kind
of amazed at how different he is going to be this tour from last
tour. We're workin' some stuff out, and he's havin' some fun with
some new toys.
Caller: All
right!
Weir: We're also
-- I don't think he's heard this yet, but I think we're going to try
to get him on alto [sax].
Caller: Oh!
Right on.
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Caller: What's
he playin' now?
Weir: He's
playin' tenor and baritone.
Caller: Okay.
All right, then Bobby.
Weir: Okay!
Caller: Thanks a
lot.
Gans: Thanks for
calling. Okay, the rest of you hang onto your --
Weir: Hats.
Gans: -- phone
lines, there. I've got the version of "Eternity" cued up. Now, this
is from a forthcoming record. You guys are finally gettin' around to
puttin' out some of your duo material.
Weir:
[laugh]
Wasserman:
[chuckle] Took a while.
Gans: It's been
a while --
Weir: Right.
Gans: -- and
it's a welcome development. So, let's talk about this. You got a
whole bunch of material, recorded when?
Wasserman: Back
in 1988, from some of our first shows together. And the thing that
makes it great, I think, is that it's all pretty acoustic: acoustic
bass, acoustic guitar. And we had just met, and it's got this really
great live energy.
Weir: Right.
It's also got the wooden instruments, and not a whole hell of a lot
more. It's just us and our wooden instruments.
Wasserman: No
effects, really. It's just sonically pure, and, uh, you have to hear
it. But one day, I was thinkin', we never did a record, and we had
all these tapes, and we're not going to go make a studio duo album
now, 'cos we're already on to Ratdog. So I started listening, played
some for Bobby, and we realized how good that stuff was.
Weir: Yeah, what
fun it was to do that.
Gans: Was this
recorded live?
Weir: Yeah. It's
all recorded live.
Gans: Before I
play this, let's talk about the name Ratdog.
Weir: Stuff just
comes to me, David.
Wasserman:
[laugh]
Gans: [laugh]
And what does it say on the T-shirt? "If you can't..." --
Weir: "If you
can't hang with the..." -- let's see; "If you can't run with the
Ratdogs, stay the hell off the couch."
Gans: Now that
makes the whole name worth it. I like that --
Weir: Well, you
know, it came to me with the album cover, too. It was one big
blinding flash. All that stuff, and then there's sort of a kitten's
eye view of a snarling Pomeranian, or whatever --
Gans:
[laugh]
Weir: -- and,
um, you'll see. It'll all fall together; it'll come into focus for
you.
Gans: That's
going to be on the cover? That's not going to be the cover of this
duo record.
Wasserman: No,
this isn't Ratdog, this is --
Gans: No,
right.
Wasserman: --
before Ratdog.
Weir: This is
pre-Ratdog. This is actually the formative stages of Scaring the
Children.
Gans: Scaring
the Children. You really got a knack for these names, Weir, I gotta
say.
Weir: Like I
say, stuff comes to me, David.
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Gans: [laugh]
All right, without further ado, this is Weir and Wasserman's
performance of "Eternity."
[Music: Bob Weir and Rob Wasserman, "Eternity" -- 5:57]
Gans: Weir and
Wasserman. "Eternity." You were just talkin' off mic about where and
how that was recorded.
Wasserman: Well,
it was -- we finished writing it with Willie just before he died, and
we recorded it, and actually this was the first time we ever really
played it through --
Weir: Right.
Wasserman: --
and recorded it at the same time.
Weir: It was me
tryin' to remember the words, all that kinda stuff.
Wasserman: And
it was a small audience. Actually, it was in [Dixon's] garage home
studio for a documentary they were making about his life. And it was
a very sad but moving experience to do it there.
Weir: Writing it
was kinda cool. So, we got together this session. Willie wanted -- we
had met Willie a couple years earlier, at the Sweetwater in Mill
Valley, when he was playin' there. And we hung with him; I played
with him a little bit. Did you play with him that night?
Wasserman:
No.
Weir: Not that
night. And after the show, we were hangin' with him, and he said,
"Well, you gotta come on down and we'll write some tunes." And so we
finally got that together and went down there, and we sort of whipped
up the beginning, these musical shards to start chasing. One of the
reasons that Willie wanted to work with us is he wanted to sort of
bust out of the blues bag. And he wanted to go into, you know, some
more extended chord changes and stuff like that. And so we started
working this thing up, and he liked it, and he started writing stuff.
And by the time we had sort of fluffed up a verse and a chorus,
musically, he handed me a sheet of paper. "Now, you go ahead and sing
this." And I was reading it, and it was so simple, and I was thinking
to myself, this is awful simple, this is really pretty simple-minded
stuff. And it's really a great honor to be working with the legendary
Willie Dixon and stuff like that --
Wasserman:
Right.
Weir: -- but you
know, maybe he's gettin' old or something like that. Maybe he doesn't
have the grip that he used to have, the edge that he used to have.
And he was sitting back there, saying, "Go ahead and sing it now. You
know, you play it and sing it, too." And so I figured, well, I gotta
to that, you know. We're working with him. And so we started playin'
it. And I read the lyrics off the page, and when I was done, I was
transported somewhere else. I was speechless at what had just
happened. Just the elegance of the statement that had just come
through my lips. And he'd been watching me. You know, he's an old
guy, he's seen me go through all these changes, he'd been watching
me. And so, I'm sitting there with my mouth open and my eyes just
sort of *wide* open, and he's just crackin' up. "Now you see, now
that's the wisdom of the blues."
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Weir: And it was
quite a moment for this boy.
Gans: It just
didn't need any more than was there, is that what you're saying?
Weir: Right!
Gans: This is
the guy that wrote "Spoonful" and "Back Door Man" and --
Weir: "Little
Red Rooster," all that stuff.
Gans: --
"Rooster," yeah.
Wasserman: Yeah,
he was a wise old guy.
Weir: "Whole
Lotta" -- no, that was John Lee Hooker.
Gans: "Hoochie
Coochie Man," "The Same Thing" --
Weir: Oh, "The
Same Thing," all that stuff. You know, about half the great blues
songs ever written were Willie Dixon['s].
Gans: And he was
a bass player?
Weir: Yeah, he
was a bass player and producer?
Gans: And who
did he play with?
Wasserman:
Upright bass player, yeah, and producer --
Weir: "Wang Dang
Doodle," you know, he wrote all the stuff. You look on a Howlin' Wolf
record, on a Muddy Waters record, he was the guy, he was Chess
Records.
Gans: Well, he
came to the right place for extended chord changes, didn't he?
Wasserman:
[laugh]
Weir:
[laugh]
Gans: And then
he taught you a thing or two about simplicity.
Weir: Right.
Gans: That's
very cool.
Weir: Yeah.
Gans: Let's take
a couple more calls here and I'll try and find the next cut on the
unindexed DAT. [chuckle]
Wasserman: Good
luck.
Gans: Hello,
you're on the air with Bob and Rob.
Caller:
Hello?
Weir: Yeah.
Caller: Hi.
Weir: Hi.
Caller: I was
wondering what the status is of all the unreleased material from the
album that never made it?
Weir: It's in
the can right now. We're going to get back around to it, honest
--
Caller:
[chuckle]
Weir: -- I
actually can't wait to do that, but you know, we got this tour to do,
and then everybody's got this project and that project, and we gotta
clear 'em all off the decks and then we'll get to it. But there's no
infernal rush; I mean, the stuff is not goin' anywhere.
Caller: Are any
of your tunes from the album -- do you think they'll make their way
into some of the Ratdog sets?
Weir: You bet.
We're working on that now.
Caller: Great.
All right, well, thanks a lot.
Weir: You
bet.
Caller: Take
care.
Gans: Hello,
you're on the air with Bob and Rob. [silence] Are you there?
Weir: No, you're
not.
Gans: Well, I
swear to God, I got this thing -- I got the right button pushed this
time. We'll try this one. Hello? [silence]
Weir: Nice work,
David.
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Gans: Now let's
see if I can get line 2 to work. Hello, are you there? [silence] Oh,
come on.
Weir: I have a
feeling line 2 doesn't work.
Caller:
Hello!
Gans: There we
go.
Weir: Ah, there
we go!
Caller: All
right, all right. First, my name is Greg. I'm out in San Francisco. I
wanna say thank you, Bobby, for all the good times in the years
past.
Weir: Pleasure's
mine, thank you.
Caller: And I
just wanted to ask, how come Ratdog does not allow taping?
Weir: Um, yeah,
there's a good question. I think we're maybe going to change that,
but I'm not sure. The rationale was that we got a buncha -- we gotta
make a record, which means we gotta make a record *deal*. And the
record company, whatever record company we go with, would probably
frown on that, but we're about to throw up our hands and say, well,
what the hell.
Caller: Well,
great. I think all the tapers out there and all the fans would
definitely appreciate it. And my other question is -- you know, all
the fans are buying the "Dick's Picks" albums as fast as we can. What
can we do to come out faster?
Weir: I don't
know. Ah...
Gans:
[chuckle]
Wasserman: Send
Dick a letter.
Weir: Yes, send
Dick a -- well, there are only so many guy who are stayin' home and
doing that. There's Phil [Lesh] and [John] Cutler and Dick [Latvala],
and that's the crew, pretty much. And Jeffrey Norman, a little bit,
the engineers. And they can only do 'em so fast.
Gans: Bob is
busy makin' music, so I take it you're not hangin' out in the archive
listening to old Grateful Dead tapes?
Weir: Not a
whole lot, no.
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Gans: Do they
run 'em past you for approval?
Weir: Uh, they
try.
Gans:
[laugh]
Caller: And what
have you thought of the last few releases?
Weir: I have not
heard them. Really, I don't have time to review that stuff. I wish I
did, and at some point I will, but -- I listen to old stuff every now
and again, for reference, but as for listening to a whole old album,
I'm not going to have time for that for the next little while. I'm
trying to put together a band, and a musical theater piece, and
stuff. Projects that are on my front burner that don't include the
past right now.
Gans: Some of us
are busy hangin' out in the past, like me and Dick, and some of us
are hangin' out in the future, like Bob and Rob.
Weir: I'm tryin'
to bring a little of the past to the future, and all that *kind* of
stuff. But, really, the thing is, I played that stuff. I was there
and I played it. And, you know, it may be that emotionally, I'm not
ready to sit there and dote over the past right now, either. I've
sort of got my eyes to the horizon right now.
Gans: That makes
sense. Okay?
Caller: All
right, well, thanks a lot.
Weir: You
bet.
Caller: Take
care.
Gans: Thanks for
calling. Okay, let's try one more; see if I can make line 3 work.
Hello, you're on the air. [silence] All right, I give up. That one's
not connected; I swear to God that thing is not connected. All right,
I've got the [laugh] --
Weir: Then why
is it winking at you?
Gans: -- these
guys are giving me such a look.
Wasserman: You
sure you paid the bill?
Gans: I -- no, I
only come in here for two hours a week.
Weir: No, *we*
pay the bills.
Wasserman:
That's right, non-profit.
Gans: That's
right, *listeners* pay the bills... By making a contribution to this
listener-sponsored station. But hey, we'll get to that at the end of
the month.
Weir:
[laugh]
Gans: Now I've
got -- I think I've got the right starting place for this little bass
solo into "Throwing Stones" from the forthcoming Bob and Rob record,
so let's just cue that up. and I'll see if I can't wrestle this third
phone into compliance.
[Music: Bob Weir and Rob Wasserman, bass solo -] "Throwing Stones" --
12:40]
Gans: I wouldn't
do this, but Bob Weir told me to. He said, okay, you can fade it
now.
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Gans: I need to
tell you that you're listening to KPFA or KPFB in Berkeley, or KFCF
in Fresno, where we don't usually fade songs out in the middle,
unless the guest demands that you do so.
Wasserman: We're
thinkin' radio here.
Weir: Right
then.
Gans: [chuckle]
Now, what were we going to talk about? Playin' acoustic instruments,
and you're going to be doing that on the Furthur Festival tour.
Weir: Yeah, a
little bit. We got another slot that we're going to fill in sort of a
round-robin sort of manner with -- it started out Rob was going to do
a solo, and then we expanded the slot so that he and I could do a bit
that kind of stuff that you just heard. And then we thought, well,
you know, from time to time, why don't we have Bruce [Hornsby] come
up and play with us, or Jorma [Kaukonen], or -- so, as it stands now,
we're just going to come up with a bunch of different -- we're going
to do it different every night, is all.
Wasserman:
Right.
Gans: So the
Furthur Festival again with have the main stage and a thrust stage,
since there's stuff goin' on in between sets.
Weir: Yeah.
Gans: Let's go
over the lineup you got. Ratdog; you got Mickey's -- he's doing a
Planet Drum kind of thing this time --
Weir: Yeah.
Gans: -- Arlo
Guthrie will be the sort of MC, and performing.
Weir: Mm-hm.
Gans: Who is
this Sherri Jackson? Tell me about her; do you know?
Weir: She's a
guitarist/singer/songwriter.
Gans: She going
to be workin' solo?
Weir: I think
so, yeah.
Gans: Okay, we
got moe., a *great* young band. Have you guys seen moe.?
Weir: No, I
haven't seen 'em.
Gans: Oh, man.
They are a lot of fun.
Weir: Great.
Wasserman:
Okay.
Gans: They'll
give you guys a run for your money.
Weir: All
right!
Gans: The Black
Crowes are sort of the top of the bill?
Weir: Yeah.
Gans: How'd they
get involved? What do you know about them?
Weir: We played
them them -- the Grateful Dead played with them a couple years back
in Tampa, and it was fun.
Gans: They like
the Grateful Dead, too, I think.
Weir: Yeah.
Gans: I'm
looking through here trying to make sure I got -- did I list
everybody?
Weir: I'm not
entirely sure --
Gans: Well,
Jorma's going to be on the road.
Weir: Yeah. I
listed Jorma.
Wasserman:
Right.
Gans: And Bruce
will be playing. Will he have a band?
Weir: I'm not
entirely sure what that setup looks like yet.
Gans: Okay. But
in between the main stage stuff there will be the stuff goin' on down
front, kind of --
Weir:
Uh-huh.
Gans: -- and
that's where you guys will do this extra thing.
Weir: Yeah.
Wasserman:
Yeah.
Gans: And
that'll be different every time. We like that. We like it to be
different every time.
Weir: Me,
too.
Gans: And you
had different lineups for the jam at the end of the show each time
last --
Weir: Yeah.
Gans: Will that
be happening again?
Weir: More so,
yeah.
Gans: More
so.
Weir: We're
going to get together a few days -- we didn't do this last year, but
this year we're going to get together for three or four days in
Florida, where the tour starts, and just sort of hammer out some
stuff with various ensembles, for the jam, so that they'll -- so we
have a little more to work with than we did last year. All that stuff
was thrown together at the last moment.
Gans: Mm-hm. So
you're going to put a little more thought into it this time.
Weir:
Uh-huh!
Gans: Sounds
like fun. And we might as well give the dates. This thing begins on
June 20th in Florida and winds up August 3rd in Irvine, and I think
the Shoreline date is August 2nd, and there are a few TBAs to be
filled in here and there, I think, on the tour.
Weir: Yeah.
Gans: You can
find out all about it by calling that old familiar GDTS phone number,
which is now Grateful Dead Ticket Sales-TOO, at (415) 457-6388, or
you can do it on the World Wide Web at www.dead.net. Are you involved
in DeadNet at all, Bob?
Weir: Naah, I
stay the hell off the 'net as much as I can. It's a time sink. I just
don't have time for it. I'm too damned busy, uh, making music, making
arrangements to make more music, and all that kind of stuff. And the
'net -- I would love to do it; it seems fascinating to me, but I'm
petrified of losing a second --
Gans: Mm-hm.
Weir: -- that I
might be able to dedicate to these projects I got.
Gans: You sound
like the White Rabbit, from "Alice in Wonderland."
Weir: Right.
Gans: "I'm late,
I'm late, for a very important date!"
Weir: Yeah,
pretty much.
Wasserman:
Actually, I just started using my computer to get on the 'net, and
it's pretty frustrating, 'cos I'd find something I want to read, and
then a message would come on saying, sorry, the system has screwed up
and you gotta start your computer over again.
Weir: Uhh!
Wasserman: You
know, for an hour, trying to find this thing. So, I just figured I
better go back to practicing on the bass.
Weir: Right.
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Gans: Well, you
could provide a little content. I think it's more like, are we going
to bump into you surfing on the Internet, it's more like --
Weir: Well, that
*will* happen.
Gans: -- you
know, there's the Phil Zone; is there --
Weir: That may
happen; I'm getting a little wireless modem thing for my Newton.
Gans:
Uh-huh.
Weir: And, you
know, to while away the hours on the bus, I might actually do a
little of that this summer. But as for right now, I'm --
Gans: Coming
soon to a chat room near you.
Weir:
[laugh]
Wasserman:
Sheeh!
Gans: [laugh]
Okay. Let's take another call here. Hello, you're on the line with
Rob and Bob. [silence]
Weir:
[laugh]
Wasserman:
[laugh]
Gans:
Hello-o?
Wasserman: Oh,
boy.
Weir: They're
sleepin.'
Gans: Uh,
really, I tried. I did my best. Let's see if this one -- are you
there?
Caller: Hi,
David. Hi, Rob; hi, Bob.
Weir: Hiya.
Wasserman:
Hey.
Caller: I just
wanted to say thank you, David, for all the great years of
programming, a real treat. Bob, I saw you and David Murray upstairs
at the Fillmore in the bar before his show, and wanted to thank you
but didn't want to hassle you.
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Weir:
[chuckle]
Caller: I want
to thank you for all the nine years or so of live music you gave me,
and for the music that still continues today with Ratdog.
Weir. Why,
thanks.
Caller: I got
two questions. One, I'm sorta curious -- those sweet buses you got
outside last year on the Furthur Festival --
Weir:
Uh-huh.
Caller: -- you
guys actually travel around in those, or do you use them more as a
base?
Weir: No, we
just like to show 'em off.
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Gans: No,
they're actually --
Weir: Because
they're lookin' pretty good. No, actually --
Caller: Well,
when you're goin' from, say, Colorado out to the West, do you really
ride around on the old bus?
Weir: Why, you
bet.
Wasserman:
Actually, you know, those vehicles from Mad Max movies?
Caller:
Yeah.
Wasserman:
That's what we really use. [chuckle]
Weir: We're
outfitting this year's buses with cowcatchers, and rocket launchers
and stuff like that.
Gans:
[laugh]
Weir: We're
going to have a little more fun this year.
Caller: Well, I
saw 'em up high in a room from Reno last year, and they looked pretty
nice.
Weir: Well, you
know, and they got bunks in 'em, and stuff like that, so we snooze
from Colorado to wherever we're going.
Caller: Good
deal.
Gans: Can you
sleep on the bus, really?
Weir: Oh,
yeah.
Wasserman: We
actually even write music on the bus, and practice.
Weir: Yeah, we
got a little sorta studio set up in the back, and all that kind of
stuff.
Gans: Yeah,
that's cool.
Caller: Well,
I've seen you go from the Valentines to Ratdog Revue to the Hog Farm
Pignic, and just wanna say you've gone a long way, and it's great
stuff today, and I think all the changes are wonderful. And I guess
if you could, you know, give me an idea about the Satchel Paige thing
you're workin' on --
Gans: Oh,
yes.
Caller: --
that'd be great.
Weir: Well,
okay, here's the deal. This takes a little while in the telling, but
-- should I get started now?
Gans: Might was
well.
Weir: Uh, a
number of years ago, six or eight years ago, in a bar in Mexico, I
was talkin' to this guy I'd just met there. And it turns out he was a
writer, and, you know, "What are you down here for?" "Well, I'm
working on a screenplay here." And he told me about the screenplay.
And just before I'd left for Mexico on that trip, you know, I'd pack
my guitar down there and find a little place on the beach and just
hang --
Caller:
Yeah.
Weir: --um, I
met, or I was reading in the Chronicle in the sports section about
the great Satchel Paige, about whom I'd heard stuff all through my
life, but for some reason a little bell went off, and I figured,
okay, there's a song here somewhere: The Ballad of Satchel Paige.
'Cos, you know, there are really no black folks in the American
pantheon.
Caller:
Right.
Weir: Except for
maybe Uncle Remus, and that's horseshit, if I may say so.
Gans: Well,
you're not really supposed to use that word, Bob.
Caller:
Beep!
Weir: Okay.
Gans: All
right.
Weir: And here's
a guy, if anybody -- he was the greatest pitcher who ever lived, at
least arguably, and probably pretty damn for sure he was also an
incredibly colorful individual. And I read a little bit about him,
and so I figured, okay, this guy's worth a song. Maybe we can see if
we can elevate him, install him as a real American hero. And so I was
talking to this guy I met in the bar in Mexico, about -- I was sort
of waxing profuse about the guy's accomplishments and what he
amounted to, in my view, and all that kind of stuff, and I didn't
even *know* much back then about him. I'd read a little bit, got a
book outta the library and stuff like that. And I was in full rave. I
was a few beers in and I was in full rave at the particular
point.
Caller:
[chuckle]
Weir: And I
said, at one point, I said, you know, it'd make a great musical. Then
I kept on raving, and the guy stopped me and said, you oughta do
that. And I said, "yeah," and kept raving. He stopped me two or three
more times, and finally, finally I realized, the guy's right. It
would make a great musical, or at least *I* was right, it'd make a
great musical. And who was going to do it? And so I started thinkin'
about that. Musical theater. I had *never* thought about doing
anything remotely like that. But, here's a great place to hang your
hat if it's musical theater you're thinkin' about, 'cos the guy's
life and times -- he grew up, you know, from the late nineteen oughts
through -- his career went all the way through the '60s.
Gans: And he
finally hit the majors toward the very, very end.
Weir: Yeah, the
last third of his career, I guess, he played in the major leagues.
And he was one of the -- he was probably *the* major reason that they
finally had to cave in and let black players play in the major
leagues. 'Cos people were -- white people were filling stadiums just
to see him pitch, with the black teams.
Gans: Wow.
Weir: And the
guy was an incredible showman. He was a clown, he was a -- and a real
showman as well. In the middle of a -- if the bases were loaded and
stuff like that, he'd point to the outfield and tell everybody to
come on in, hit the bench. And he'd pitch to however many batters
were left in that inning with nobody in the outfield.
Gans:
[laugh]
Wasserman:
Jesus! [chuckle]
Weir: Stuff like
that. You know, you don't see a lot of that in baseball these
days.
Gans: That's
nerve.
Caller: That's
great. That sounds like a great project.
Weir: And all
through his life and times, he grew up -- he was born in Mobile,
Alabama, and if you trace his life and times, you find yourself
basically on the chitlin circuit, where all the black, all the Negro
League baseball teams played. Well, those were also all the same
towns where the blues and jazz clubs and barrooms and dance halls --
all the great music from that era, from the '20s basically through
the late '40s. And there's a whole lot of great music. In fact,
probably the best music the world has ever seen --
Gans: Hm.
Weir: -- came
from that era, and from that little dynamo that happened in that era
in that locale. And the ballplayers used to all go to the clubs at
night, and hang with the musicians, and then during the day the
musicians would all come out to the ballparks, and hang with those
guys. And they created a society and a culture; it was real
renaissance that happened in this country. And the culture and that
society that grew up within that renaissance, in Kansas City and
Memphis and New Orleans and Chicago and New York, Baltimore, Atlanta
-- where they had all that going, the chitlin circuit -- they came
out of the Depression, for instance, like four or five years before
the rest of American society did, because of the wealth that was
generated between the music and the ballplayers.
Gans: Huh.
Weir: People
would come to see Satchel Paige and the Negro League teams play. And
then at night, they'd go to the clubs and the dance halls and stuff,
and dance. And there were hotels and businesses -- those people were
wearing Italian suits, and drivin' Cadillacs and all that kinda stuff
--
Caller:
[chuckle]
Weir: -- in the
middle of the '30s.
Gans: Was this
more or less invisible to mainstream, white society?
Weir: No, white
society knew about it, but it didn't get a lot of play in the
newsreels, and -- everybody loved the music, and as soon as Jackie
Robinson went into the majors and broke the [color] barrier, and the
floodgates opened, and all those great black players went to the
major leagues, that whole thing crumbled.
Gans: Ah.
Weir: And so --
it was right before television happened, so television never caught
that era, and the great jazz bands hit the white country club
circuit, and that's where you heard them. You didn't hear them in the
-- they got off the chitlin circuit because that whole economy was
destroyed at that point. Well, anyway, there's a story to be told
that could easily be forgotten, just sort of passed over by time. And
it'd be a real sad thing, because there's some wonderful stuff that
happened back then. Not just the music, but the whole elegance and
the panache of that era that, you know -- there's a story to be told
there. And so I put a friend of mine on the road for a couple of
years to go out and interview all the old ballplayers that we could
find, and all the old musicians. And we have days and days of
archived tapes and videotapes and stuff like that, of these old black
guys, many of whom are dead now, just in the last few years. And
we're assembling all that, and we have a book written now, and I'd
say about 95 percent of the music written, and we're trying to get a
director for the piece, and we're going to try to put it on
Broadway.
Gans: Wow.
Caller: Wow,
that sounds great. I look forward to seeing that.
Gans: Yeah,
thanks for telling the story. That's great.
Caller: Well,
thank you for answering my question, and I look forward to seeing you
at the Headwaters benefit and again on the Furthur Festival. Will you
guys be sorta headlining that again?
Weir: The
Furthur Festival? Actually, no, the Black Crowes'll be headlining it
this year.
Caller:
Okay.
Weir: But we'll
be there, sure as well.
Gans: All
right.
Caller: Great.
Again, thank you for everything.
Weir: And you.
Thanks for enjoying it.
Caller: And I
look forward to seeing you soon.
Weir: Okay!
Gans: Thanks for
calling. Let's take this opportunity to mention this benefit that's
coming up here, Wednesday, May 28th. It's called "ForEverGreen;" it's
a benefit for the Natural Resources Defense Counsel's Forest
Campaign, and Headwaters Forest Protection Program. It features Bob
Weir/Rob Wasserman and Ratdog, Bonnie Raitt, John Popper and Bob
Sheehan of Blues Traveler, and Charlie Musselwhite.
Weir: Mm-hm, and
a couple other folks, but I won't mention them, 'cos they don't want
to be talked about.
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Gans: [whisper]
Secret special guests.
Um, is there going to be some collaboration among the musicians?
Weir: Yeah.
Gans: So
Bonnie's going to sit in with you guys, maybe, and play a little
slide and stuff?
Weir: That's the
plan.
Gans: All right!
So that happens at the Warfield on May 28th, doors at 7, show at 8.
Tickets are being sold by the Natural Resources Defense Counsel for
the main floor table and chair reserved seating, and unfortunately, I
do not a phone number here for that. If anybody knows that number
--
Weir: Call
NRDC.
Gans: NRDC. Is
that in San Francisco?
Weir: Yeah, I
think so.
Gans: Natural
Resources Defense Council in San Francisco. There are also balcony
and upper balcony seats on sale at BASS and the Fillmore box office.
It sounds like it might be a lot of fun.
Weir: And they
are goin' hand over fist, too. So hurry.
Gans: So get in
there and get a ticket while you can. And of course, again let me
just mention that Furthur Festival thing, since that's sorta what
we're here to plug, and that begins June 20th in Florida and snakes
across the country for a few weeks and winds up back here on the 2nd
of August at Shoreline. I'm sure there are still tickets available
for that. You can find out more on the DeadNet page at www.dead.net,
and also by calling the Grateful Dead Ticket Sales hotline at (415)
457-6388. Let's just get another caller on the line.
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Weir:
[giggle]
Gans: Hello, are
you there?
Caller: Yeah, I
am.
Gans: Cool.
Wasserman:
Wow.
Caller: Hi, Bob,
this is Andy.
Weir: Hi,
Andy.
Caller: And I'm
very interested in some of the formation of Ratdog. I know you spoke
about that earlier. In particular I'm thinking of the Earth Day
benefit that you played in mid-1995. And it was really great to hear
Matthew Kelly and Jay Lane at that gig.
Weir: Okay, I
remember that one.
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Caller: Did that
happen to be the first gig that they played at?
Weir: Yeah. That
was the first gig that we had that ensemble together for.
Caller: Okay,
that was very interesting. And, um, did you have any idea what was
happening there?
Gans:
[laugh]
Caller: Had you
planned on creating a band at that point?
Wasserman: That
was a band.
Weir: That was a
band, and we were in deadly earnest, sir.
Gans:
[laugh]
Weir: We knew
exactly what we were up to. That was a calculated move. We went and
played that gig just like we thought we would.
Caller: Well,
and you played electric guitar better than I'd ever seen you do
before --
Weir: Well,
thanks.
Caller: -- so
that was really great. Um, how about the name Friends of Moctezuma?
Are you going to tell me that those things just come to you, or do
you have any insight on that name?
Wasserman: That
name comes through us.
Gans:
[laugh]
Weir: [chuckle]
All I can tell you, stuff just comes to me, Andy.
Gans: There was
another band name you mentioned off mic a little while ago.
Wasserman: A
couple of names we didn't use.
Weir: Well, a
couple of names that we've been through -- for a while, we were The
Chewtoys.
Gans: Chewtoys!
[laugh]
Weir: And for a
while, we were The Fabulous Woodies, and, uh --
Gans:
[laugh]
Wasserman:
Scaring the Children.
Weir: Scaring
the Children, that's already...
Wasserman: We
did, yeah; that lasted a little while.
Weir: Yeah.
Actually, that lasted a year or two.
Wasserman: They
banned us in Canada.
Weir: Yeah! We
were actually -- in Canada, they would not put the name on. Scaring
the Children -- they would not put the name on the marquee.
Gans: Wow.
Weir: "Ah, you
cant do that here."
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Weir: "I don't
know what you folks down there do, but not here, you don't."
Gans:
[chuckle]
Weir: I had *no*
idea what they were objecting to.
Gans: Well,
thanks for calling!
Caller: Thank
you.
Weir:
Uh-huh.
Caller:
Bye-bye.
Gans: Let's talk
about Rob Wasserman a little bit, you know.
Weir: Yeah!
Gans: This guy
had a career before he hooked up with you --
Weir:
[laugh]
Wasserman:
[laugh]
Gans: -- and has
actually accomplished quite a bit. I first heard of you in connection
with the David Grisman Quintet.
Wasserman:
Uh-huh.
Gans: And then
there was that solo album, and then there was a duos album --
Wasserman:
Duets.
Gans: Duets,
excuse me, and a trios album.
Wasserman:
Mm-hm.
Gans: And you've
done a lot of work with Bruce Cockburn, and lots of people.
Wasserman: Ricki
Lee Jones --
Gans: Lou
Reed.
Wasserman: --
Lou Reed, for a long time.
Gans: He gets
around.
Wasserman: Who,
Lou?
Gans: You!
Wasserman: Oh,
me. Yeah, yeah, I guess I did, or do. And, um --
Weir: He's goin'
to Finland, the end of this month, for three days.
Wasserman: To
part of some international producers' conference. I'm the only
musician. I'm supposed to lecture for four hours on I don't know
what.
Weir: You're
going to lecture for four hours?
Gans: You going
to tell producers --
Weir: You're
going to need some speed, son.
Wasserman: I've
never even talked for four hours before, so --
Weir: I've never
heard him talk for more than about 30 seconds at a time.
[chuckle]
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Gans: Not a big
windy guy. That should be interesting.
Wasserman: I'm
going to have to make some notes, I think. [chuckle]
Gans: Are you
going to tell producers what musicians want?
Wasserman: I'm
not sure what I'm going to say at this point.
Gans: Are they
payin' you the big bucks to go there and talk for four hours?
Wasserman: Just
some sardines, I think. I don't know.
Gans:
[laugh]
Weir: [laugh]
And all the [unintelligible] that you can choke down.
Gans: I hope you
tape the lecture, so we can put it on the air here and everybody can
hear what you have to say, to the producers of -- is it producers of
Finland, or the producers of Northern Europe? Is this a NATO
thing?
Wasserman:
Producers from China -- one from China, one from South Africa, one
from -- they're from all over the world.
Gans: Wow.
Wasserman: And
yeah, it's one of my next things. I'm also starting working on my
next record, which -- solo record, which is going to be a bass-led
record with the bass playing melodies, the bass playing the bass
lines, over grooves, rhythm grooves, which is a departure for me.
Instead of no drums, it's going to have [a] real groove-oriented
thing happening.
Gans: Ah. Sounds
interesting. So you continue to have a thriving career outside of
Ratdog.
Wasserman: Yeah,
I guess. And then this album which I put together, which I'm real
excited about, 'cos it really surprised me, surprised everyone --
Bobby and me, to go back and hear the roots of our initial meeting,
our friendship, where it came out of; and Ratdog, where it came from.
And when I used to just play the acoustic bass exclusively. It's
really great to hear it again, and I'm glad it's coming out this
summer.
Gans: Now,
that's going to be sold on the Furthur tour, and possibly through
Grateful Dead Merchandising --
Weir: Yeah.
Gans: -- at
first --
Weir: Yeah.
Gans: -- so you
gotta go to the gig to get it.
Weir: [laugh]
That's all we can afford to print up right now, so we're going to
take 'em all with us.
Wasserman:
[laugh] This is a homemade project.
Gans: And you
can also get one of those T-shirts, I guess, right?
Weir: Right, you
can grab a T-shirt or two.
Gans: You can
have a Ratdog T-shirt. I do like that phrase.
Weir: Free
snakes and lizards for the kids.
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Gans: [chuckle]
I happen to have Bruce Cockburn's most recent record cued up here,
which features Rob Wasserman on basically all the cuts, and Bob Weir
on one cut.
Weir: Mm.
Gans: Now,
you've done some writing with Bruce. Doesn't he have a co-writing
credit on a song or two of yours?
Weir: Ah, yeah.
I don't remember which ones, and there're more to come, too.
Gans: Great.
How'd you --
Wasserman:
"Shoulda Had Been Me," remember.
Weir: Yeah,
yeah, yeah.
Wasserman: For
"Satchel Paige."
Weir: Yeah, for
the Satchel Paige thing.
Gans:
Uh-huh.
Weir: There's
more.
Wasserman: We've
-- yeah, he's a great guy, a great writer.
Gans: Boy, he
sure is. He, of course, wrote "Waiting For a Miracle," which Jerry
did a fine job with.
Weir. Right; he
also wrote "If I Had a Rocket Launcher," which was one of my personal
faves.
Gans: Well,
let's just listen to this. This is from Bruce Cockburn's most recent
record, called "The Charity of Night," and the name of this cut, if I
have it right, is "The Whole Night Sky."
[Music: Bruce Cockburn, "The Whole Night Sky," from "The Charity of
Night" -- 3:42]
[Music: Chalice, "Sugar Magnolia," from "Reggae Celebrates the
Grateful Dead, Vol. 2" -- 3:52]
Weir: All
right!
Gans: That's a
-- the name of the band is Chalice. That's from volume 2 of "Reggae
Celebrates the Grateful Dead," coming out from Pow Wow Records. And
just by fortunate coincidence, that came in the mail today. So I
thought I'd whip it on ya!
Weir: Right!
Well, that's kinda cool. I like that a lot.
Gans: It is
kinda cool.
Weir: We might
have to work it up that way, every now and again.
Wasserman:
[chuckle] Could be Ratdog.
Weir:
[laugh]
Gans: Well, that
brings up a question. How do you guys choose your material.
Weir: Ahhh,
yeah. [chuckle]
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Gans: Oops, next
question.
Weir: Right. Or
go to a commercial.
Wasserman: "Go
to a commercial"!
Gans: Bob has a
way of letting you know when he doesn't want to answer a question.
Okay, let's talk another call instead, that'll teach ya. Hello,
you're on the air.
Caller: Am I
really?
Gans: Yeah!
Weir:
[chuckle]
Caller: Hi, my
name's --
Gans: Watch your
language.
Wasserman: She's
been cut off five times.
Gans: Say
again?
Caller: My
name's Buffy.
Weir: Hi.
Caller: Hi, how
are ya?
Weir: Just fine,
Buffy.
Caller: I go to
school at Tulane.
Weir: Right.
Caller: I just
saw y'all in House of Blues.
Weir: Right.
Caller: I wanna
know is the Furthur Festival comin' there?
Weir: We'll be
in the neighborhood. Well, kinda in the neighborhood. I think the
closest we're going to be is probably Atlanta or um -- does it really
matter? Florida.
Gans: Will you
make it to where it is?
Wasserman: West
Palm Beach.
Gans: I'm
lookin' at the, uh --
Caller: Yeah,
because me and my roommates Dawn and Kimberly will be roadtripping in
the summer.
Gans: Ahh.
Wasserman:
Uh-oh.
Weir: Right.
Gans: I'm not
finding the --
Weir: Well, we
look forward to seeing you all there.
Caller: Well,
um, maybe we'll just follow y'all around.
Weir: Right.
Caller: That
could be fun.
Gans: Great.
Weir: Damn sure
going to be fun; you know that.
Caller: Do you
remember us? We were all in the front row.
Gans:
[laugh]
Weir: Right. How
could I forget.
Caller: Right.
You know, the blonde, the strawberry red, and then the, uh -- what's
my other friend, uh --
Weir: Well, she
--
Caller: --
auburn.
Weir: -- right,
she had the wavy auburn hair.
Wasserman:
[snicker] Oh, my God.
Caller: Right.
And if I wanted to -- you're not on the Internet yet, are you?
Weir: Well, no,
not just yet.
Caller: Does the
dead.net have any fan mail thing?
Gans: Oh, yeah,
there's a whole topic in there for messages to Bob that he's never
read.
Weir:
[laugh]
Caller: Hmm.
Well, okay, we'll see you in Florida, then.
Gans: You'll
just have to send me a stamped self-addressed envelope and I'll give
you the license plate of their tour bus.
Weir:
[laugh]
Gans: Thanks for
calling.
Caller: Okay,
thanks!
Weir: Mm-hm.
Caller: Bye.
Gans: Okay,
let's try again. Hello, you're on the air.
Caller: Hi, my
name is Brendan, callin' in, sayin' hi to Bob and Rob, and David, and
thanks, especially Bob, for everything.
Weir: Mm-hm.
Caller: And my
just quick question is, I'm just curious what you like to listen to
in your -- sounds like you don't have much of it, but your spare
time.
Weir: [laugh]
We're going to put a little of that stuff on.
Gans: I'll tell
ya, from my few visits to Bob Weir's house, he has an extremely
eclectic record collection; a very, very widespread taste in
music.
Weir: I don't
listen to a whole lot of current popular music; never have, really.
Not since the '70s. Um, I like the --
Caller: What
caught your ear lately?
Weir: Well, I
been listenin' to a lot of old jazz, particularly, and old blues,
because I've been working on this musical theater piece that
incorporates a lot of that, and I love the idioms.The fusion of
African and European musics together is -- it gets me nuts. The more
I get into it, the crazier I get about it. And what we have here --
you wanna read the label, 'cos I forget the label of the record.
Gans: It's, uh,
Ali Farka Toure with Ry Cooder. It's called "Talking Timbuktu."
Caller: Oh, good
record.
Weir: This is a
fusion of, yet another fusion of -- I guess Ali is actually, isn't he
from Madagascar? I'm not sure.
Wasserman: I
think so.
Caller:
Actually, he's from Mali.
Weir: Mali
--
Gans: Mali,
there you go.
Weir: -- right,
that's right. But --
Gans: And sings
in eleven languages, it says here.
Weir: [chuckle]
Right!
Wasserman: On
one song. [chuckle]
Weir: This is
another slant at the fusion of African and European music, but it's
way cool. I listen to that stuff; I listen to modern classical a lot.
Phil turned me on to that years ago. Um, what else do I listen to?
God, I don't know, about anything that catches my ear.
Caller:
Okay.
Gans: All right,
let's listen to this cut from --
Caller: Thanks a
lot.
Gans: Oh, sorry
to interrupt.
Weir: You
bet.
Caller: Good
night.
Gans: We're
going to listen to Ali Farka Toure and Ry Cooder from an album called
"Talking Timbuktu," which is actually where Ali Farka Toure is from
--
Weir: Right.
Gans: --
TImbuktu. So --
Weir: That's
Upper Volta, isn't it?
Gans: We'll read
the liner notes while this is on --
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Gans: -- and
give you an opinion at the end.
[Music: Ali Farka Toure and Ry Cooder, "Sega," from "Talking
Timbuktu" -- 2:56]
[Music: Charles Brown, "Who Will the Next Fool Be," from "One More
for the Road" -- 4:03]
Gans: Well, Bob
Weir brought in two records from home, and there they were. That
shows you a little bit of the range we're talkin' about here. Ali
Farka Toure and Ry Cooder, and that was Charles Brown, the East Bay's
own.
Weir: The
inimitable, old original. That's great stuff. Every last tune on
every last record that I've heard of his is every bit as good as that
if not better.
Gans: And he's
got a very, very sweet presence, too.
Weir: Right.
Wasserman:
Yeah.
Gans: I've seen
him a couple of times at Sweetwater.
Weir: Yeah.
Wasserman: We
played with him at Sweetwater once.
Weir: Yeah.
Gans: And I
think I was at one of those gigs.
Wasserman: Jimmy
Scott
Weir:
[chuckle]
Gans: One of
John Goddard's legendary [Village Music] Christmas parties.
Weir: One hell
of an evening, yeah.
Gans: Mm-hm. Lot
of fun stuff. Uh, we're talking with Bob Weir and Rob Wasserman here,
and have been for nearly two hours now. These guys, of course, are
part of the --
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Gans: What?
Weir:
[chuckle]
Wasserman:
Sorry, I was just -- you said two hours, and I started falling
over.
Weir: Part of
the distant past, very soon, but...
Gans: [chuckle]
They're currently playing together as Ratdog, and they will be doing
also this acoustic duo-type stuff and with various permutations on
the Furthur tour that's coming up soon. It's been a pleasure to have
you guys here. I was expecting Bob, and I got Rob as a bonus, and
--
Weir: Right.
Gans: -- they've
kept each other amused for most of this time here, and kept you
amused, too. And just because that's the kinda perverse guy that I
am, I'm going to make 'em take a couple more calls before I play some
more Ratdog.
Weir: [laugh]
Bring 'em on.
Gans: Hello,
you're on the air with Rob and Bob.
Caller: Hey,
how's it goin', you guys.
Weir: Just
fine.
Caller: All
right. Hey, I was wonderin' if you could talk for a sec about it
feels to not be cornered into playing stadiums every time you go out
these days, and -- how's life after the big Giants Stadium every
summer?
Weir: I'll tell
ya what. I don't much care as long as I'm playin'. Um, if the place
is too big or too small, sometimes that kinds gets in the way, and
too big really is too big, there's no question about it. We got to a
point where we were comfortable playin' them, but it's not a big
quality experience for anybody, not for the guys on stage and not for
the folks beyond the, you know, 20th or 30th row. Um, and then when
we go into the Sweetwater sometimes, that seems a little like playin'
in a shoe box as well. But, you know, we get used to that by the end
of the evening, too. You can get used to anything. But it's nice to
play in places that were made for music. And these sheds that we're
playing this summer are all made for music. So that's great. And we
play theaters and stuff like that as well. And they were made for
music as well.
Wasserman:
Mm-hm.
Weir: And so, it
really lends to the quality of the experience for everybody, I
think.
Caller: Right
on. Well, hey, thanks for all the permutations, and keep 'em
comin'.
Weir: [laugh]
Right. Permutation's my middle name.
Gans:
[laugh]
Caller: All
right, good night, you guys.
Gans: Thanks for
calling. Well, I have another piece of music here cued up. This is
from the most recent Ratdog tour. I'm not sure of the exact date of
this, but it was sometime in the spring of '97, and it's a nice
version of "Cassidy" that features the full lineup.
Wasserman: Oh,
that's from the House of Blues --
Weir: Yeah.
Wasserman: --
New Orleans --
Gans: New
Orleans.
Wasserman: --
whenever that was.
Gans: Oh, where
you met up with --
Weir: Buffy,
Dawn, and Kimberly. This one's for you.
Gans: [laugh]
And this is going to be on a record that's called "Further More" that
is also going to be sold on the tour, and it includes some highlights
from last year's Furthur jams, a little bit of music from the other
participants on the tour, and this live cut, from Ratdog. So thanks
for being here, you guys --
Weir: All
right!
Wasserman: Yeah,
thank you.
Gans: -- and
thank you all for listening, and for your phone calls.
Weir: [radio
announcer voice] Great to be coming at ya from the big KPFA.
Gans:
[snicker]
Wasserman:
Ninety-four point one.
Weir: [chuckle]
[radio announcer voice] Ninety-four point one!
Gans: I guess
I'll have them record some IDs off the air.
Weir:
[chuckle]
Wasserman:
[chuckle]
Gans: Here we
go.
[Music: Ratdog, "St. Stephen" (bass solo) -] "Cassidy," 4/7/97, House
of Blues, New Orleans, LA -- 8:45]
***