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P.O.N. Seminars 1992
Copyright 1992, 1998, The Philosophers of Nature. All rights
Lecturer: Jean Dubuis
Warning: Safety in Practical Alchemy please read this notice from The Philosophers of Nature
Patrice: To begin with we won't answer your questions. Jean just makes the lectures when he is inspired, with direct contact and when he cannot follow the programs of earth. That's why he finds problems with all organizations.
Patrice: This morning he realized he had forgotten an important point and this is very important, that everyone should understand.
Jean: When you're in the unity, the beginning, there is no possibility of formation because when there is no space/time there is no experience. There is a global vision of the whole - then we go for an experience - which means that, from our conscious that was null - it becomes infinite - but it can only be done through the worlds of duality like here in this one (here on earth). The only reason we are down here is to structure our consciousness. If we ever come back here, I will explain the concept that the work we have been doing here on our own consciousness, begins to be transferred to the inner worlds. And afterwards when everything has been done we have started at like a zero, or unconscious being and in the end we're the same being but we're entirely conscious and infinite. But we have done it all by ourselves.
I thought afterward that I had not insisted on the fact that all the creation is the work of man's conscious, who creates all this in order to allow us to assume its becoming. We are the Elohim Creators. We create what we need to assume our becoming. There is no creating God in the universe apart from Man. The total creation is a work of Man (men).
There's a problem I have not spoken of, on which you must be careful because modern magic has spoken at random of this problem. But what is said on the elementals, in fact the elementals are the human seeds that start growing, but known are the human seeds in the state of creation of the element earth. And so on for the four elements. So you will note that there are four kinds of elementals, that they are pictures, the four journeys of man in mineral, in vegetable, in animal. The elementals, the salamander etc. are the experiences of man as he begins to know the divine love through Fire.
You must not get too involved in the numerous superstitions you will find in that. But through what we will say now or in another seminar, since you're all very nice, you must find by yourself, everything that you are studying in there. There are a lot of symbolic pictures that are true, use them for your path. Do not believe through superstition. In all occult sciences as in alchemy - believe only your own experience.
O.K. We sit a bit!
Here Hans Nintzel tries to present a qabalistic book that he would like everyone to know about. Jean rejects this at this time etc.
Q. Am I correct in saying that during the summer the energy is higher?
Q. Would it be better for the deliquescing of the butter of antimony at that time?
A. First of all to explain this properly we would have to have at least 4 seminars here. We have given the elements for people to work. O.K. But of course we are aware that a lot of details are missing, but on the three days we had it wasn't possible. We believe that elements have been given to walk on the path we know good through experience. And all what was said was what you need to start with, but for the elements afterwards it can't be given today. So we'll send you this when we will be 12 miles above the Atlantic. (Laughs.)
Q. Viola Engel - "Could you explain the concept of a holographic universe with the subatomic particles and other dimensions influencing our alchemical work?."
A. Please stand up. Very dear lady, your question is very interesting. I don't think we could answer it totally your problem today, because I know that to answer you there are lots of elements that I have not given and it's not by will or secret, but that you have to begin at the beginning. For instance, if you read the sum up of the actual European Nuclear Center, you will see that they come close to this question. Please excuse us that the answer cannot be given here, because it's impossible.
Q. Would you explain further the qualities and the characteristics needed for the Fire initiation?.
A. Whew! Sssshhh! (rubs his head, laughs) Several systems of initiation exist. I think we have given you the keys to start with, and particularly what we gave in the vegetable kingdom - gives you the inner opening to start with. But after that there is (are) a great number of paths - we explained this problem a little and everybody little by little will be able to go his own way.
Please repeat your question.
During your alchemical work you must reach an inner initiatic contact. When it will be done, for every level we will have what's called quintessence. Quintessence means that 4 elements are well awakened in one level. I know that from experiences, myself, and lots of other persons, that at that time the Invisible Order, - but not the Order of the earth - will confirm your initiation in this field. I don't think we can have an Invisible World initiation on an inner qabalistic level, as long as this one (this level), is not in balance of the 4 elements. (Question again) From within.....
The different alchemical paths correspond to different initiatic paths. I don't know if I have been well understood, but, for instance a White Work medicine gives the balance on one level, there everything is perfect, and then the so-called fire or this level when the balance is perfect. And you get a certain amount of Divine Love once this is done. (Say it again) ....
In general when we speak about the qualities of the individual, according to social and religious conventions, moral thinking. The Grandfather, who judges of the initiation doesn't care a cinch on that kind of problem. He only looks at your heart, if it's clear, pure, and generous. The rest of it He doesn't give a damn! But I want to make fun. And when people tell me about problems between men and women, I say that (these are) all conventions on the earth on this subject of fault, because if we believe in man's conventions for all the irregular cases, then the Grandfather would have a notebook that would be bigger than the universe! (Laughs.) Excuse us.
Any other questions?
Q. Butter of antimony....
A. To have a maximum of Fire in the butter of antimony it's during the spring equinox and during one or two months afterwards. For all the antimony problems Basil Valentine says - Basil says that you must operate when the weather is fine, that's what has happened during this seminar - and I think this is true.
Q. What about astrological conjunctions?
A. I don't believe in any value of classical astrology. For a lot of occult reasons that cannot be explained today because what's based on astrology here is false because of the actual conditions. But on the other hand we know, is that the astrology of the planetary genius's is the only one that has not been modified. And aside from this you have to take nothing into account. Nothing for your alchemical work or evolution. The regular astrology consists in waiting for everything to be well placed and with the planetary genius's astrology you take a stick and hit the planetary genius until he does the work! (Laughs.)
Q. Bill van Doren "You said earlier that Cornelius Agrippa had written a book on the Planetary genii?"
A. Cornelius Agrippa "The Occult Philosophy" has many things in it, but the part that contains the planetary genius's is pretty good. These are things we've started experiencing.
Q. Question about dosage in the third work.
A. Are you familiar with the Homeopathic, it's not the problem of quantity it's the problem of presence - of being there. In the wheat field you can put ten seeds, some are good, some are bad, but the wheat will grow. When your not too rich, and careful, take care before working with the auric seed. Because the gold that was used once for the seed is a metal, but it's dead.
Q. You spoke of getting the seed of gold out of the first scoria?
A. You can get the auric seed by several ways. When you take Urbigerus's way, that was not explained here because it's very dangerous, it will be explained in the future. Urbigerus says that gold is the rich man's path, and the scoria is the poor man's path. And, you can extract the seed of gold from the first scoria of antimony - you reduce the stibnite to antimony, the other ones you can throw away - you must sort this scoria, only the deliquesced ones are good. In the next seminary when we come, we will show you how to trap these with ammonium chloride.
And you can extract a seed from marcasite and from copper ores. We wouldn't have said it anyway because we want you to bring us back for another journey (seminar). We couldn't say anything because of time. So if you ask us to take care of it, we'll tell you how to get the seed from the marcasite or from the copper ore. The seed extracted from the iron marcasite is not ripe - and going down the sephirotic levels through Tiphareth where it's ripe - and the excess of ripened seed leads to Netzach, the copper. When you extract from the copper its ripe, from the iron its not. There's no time here to develop this, but the lunar venusian Regulus is done because you need the auric seed to go back to Tiphareth.
Q. About vinegar of Antimony.
A. Forget it! Next question please... When we started I had a few meetings with Albertus, but when afterwards I met the German Alchemists I threw the antimony vinegar in the garbage. Too bad for you folks I want my place. If you like - we are sure by experience that there is a path that's relatively easy and that gives initiatic experience to a lot of people. I don't want to take care of the other paths (half). O.K.? I spoke of the acetates because I think it's a path we can start working with, but more and more we will go on the animated mercury, it's the best and the most practical concerning the initiatic work.
We have a rather long to explain research planned - this is the Stone that's said to be one crucible, one way, one furnace, it's probably interesting we worked a lot on it. We think that today there are complex technical problems so that everybody can work on it. So you can't give a simple solution to it. Maybe in six months time - cause I'm having experiences on that, after this study - I might have a solution for everybody, it's not the case now, actually. Usually, I don't speak of what I'm working on, and systematically I don't on what's being experienced or sometimes if I say I think this is it, I just say I think because I have not tried it. We make a work both theoretical and experimental. Sometimes we give ideas above that, ideas that we think valuable, but what we say is right is only because we have been working on it.
(Jean is) I am very fond of you, and I hope we will come back and hopefully at that time we will give you things that are actually under study, but that will be the surprise.
Merci... Thank the Sky.. Sorry for leaving but this is Air France's problem not ours.
Patrice: Something more, next to this seminar, you are free to write Jean on personal questions - but usually the answer time is about two months.
Copyright 1992, 1998, The Philosophers of Nature. All rights